Intermittant connection loss for last 10 months

[Boyksy]

Hi

First post on here - I have lost faith in the traditional method of ringing the helpdesks.

We received a letter last May from TT saying that they were upgrading the line. Since then, there has been nothing but trouble on the broadband connection with it dropping regularly.

TT initially said that it could be a faulty router that I was using or microfilter. I used to use a Linksys WAG54GS wireless router - it dropped regularly. I used the wired modem that came from TT - it dropped regularly. Last week in desperation I bought a Netgear DG834G in the hope it would work - no joy. Ive used 8 different microfilters too. And FYI, Sky has been installed and running in the house since June 06.

I have been running through both the test socket and the main socket and the same issues and breaks in connection occur.

Previously, when going through the 2nd line support, I was told people would ring back - they seldom did. I was told that BT Openreach had looked at the line but couldnt find anything wrong. They wouldnt send an engineer out to the house though and said if they did and the connection was working, they would charge me. Bit harsh given the nature of the problem - ie intermittant connection! I dre say that there are numerous tickets still open for me on the system.

Im rapidly running out of patience. I cant understand how if the problems are occuring through the test socket there cant be an issue with the line. The phoneline does get crackly at times too, which is something else that makes me think it could be line or wiring-related).

So I am appealing, in desperation, to the helpful guys on here to help resolve my issue. Please!!!!

Ta

Rob

PS Whilst writing this, the connection has dropped 3 times between 9.25 am and 9.39am

PPS: Updated at 11.07am - 4 further outages since original post

System Up Time 00:32:34
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 214 252 0 168 497 00:06:31
LAN 10M/100M 1790 0 0 158 0 00:32:27
WLAN 11M/54M 14240 13803 0 4687 1288 00:32:19


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4099 kbps 443 kbps
Line Attenuation 36.0 db 16.3 db
Noise Margin 14.6 db 27.8 db

[blackeagle]

The phoneline does get crackly at times too, which is something else that makes me think it could be line or wiring-related).


Thats the first place I would start. If your phoneline is noisy, with crackles etc then your broadband will suffer. If I were you, I would be reporting a voice fault. When this is cured, your broadband should follow. Also, the fact that using the test socket makes no difference would also point in that direction, as would substitute routers and filters.

By the way, I am running a Linksys WAG54GS, and its rock solid all the time.

[Boyksy]

Thanks for the post.

I guess im reluctant to have to go through the whole process of logging calls, being promised a response in 24-48 hours (that seldom happens) and wasting time being held in a queue.

If thats what I have to do, then so be it, but helpful responses like yours BlackEagle were what I was hoping for.

:p

[blackeagle]

No problem. There are no tech guys on at the moment (sunday and all that) but there will be several tomorrow. I suggest you 'bump' this thread tomorrow (make another post in it) to attract their attention. They will be able to sort things out for you with the minimum of fuss, and if they say they will ring you, or escalate your problem for you, then you can be sure they will.

[HRAY]

You are plugged in to the 'hot line' here. If TT guys dont pick up tomorrow (Mon morning) just give this post a 'bump' (simply do a post) from past experience things will happen start to move/happen very quickly :)

[HRAY]

blackeagle and myself thoughts interleaved

[Boyksy]

Thanks guys - much appreciated.

Out of interest, what would they levy a charge for an engineer visit for - my concern is that with an intermittant fault it could work fine when they rock out.:confused:

[Lee]

Hi Boyksy,

Because your broadband uses higher frequencies than your voice service, any fault on your voice side of things is going to be amplified on the broadband side. Your best bet with this would be to first sort out your voice issue by calling TalkTalk and loggging this as a voice fault, the number is 0870 0878777.

Voice fault issues generally have a higher priority than broadband faults (48hours for resolution).

If the engineer finds the fault to be within your house and not on the openreach circuit. The standard charge is £167

[blackeagle]

If they find a fault, nothing. But don't worry, there are various tests they can do on your line without visiting you. As you have tried the test socket, you've already eliminated any internal wiring, just leaving the copper from your house to the exchange.

[HRAY]

'''Sorry''' Boysky
Appears the TT guys are so keen they cant wait till tomorrow to get started on you lollollollol

[Boyksy]

Ok, ive logged a call with a voiceline fault, ticket number 652228, will see what comes of this. Its a good test to see if they stick to their word and let me know what they find after 48 hours - generally hear nothing back.

Encouragingly, the guy could hear the repeated crackles on the line when I was logging the call, so make of that what you will.

Would be grateful if any of the TT guys on here could "watch" the status of this ticket for me and let me know either by forum or PM of any updates on this.

Cheers guys

[HRAY]

Boysky there are numerous postings regarding your internal wiring so you can eliminate yourself first

[Boyksy]

Right, checked the likelihood of the internal wiring and as im connected directly into the master/test socket im happy im ok there.

Yesterday had problems with connection mid afternoon when it dropped a couple of times. This is the frustrating part of it - there is no pattern to the disconnection issues, other than when you need the connection the most, you can guarantee it wont be there.

Early days I know, but dont suppose there has been any movement on the ticket status guys? :D

[Boyksy]

Just had an update (credit where credit is due for the prompt response!) via text message from CFW stating that they were unable to find any fault on the line. Whilst I can reply to the message with "NOT FIXED", anyone have any other ideas as I know for a fact that the problem is still ongoing.

I spoke to my wife who is at home and she said that the internet cut out last at 2pm today.

Any thoughts?

[Boyksy]

Is that a no?!:confused:

[Boyksy]

Guys? Any thoughts?

[Lee]

Hi Boyksy,

When you say test socket, have you unscrewed the faceplate to the master socket ? See Do I have a test socket and how do I use it ? (http://www.talktalkmembers.com/content/view/88/68/)

[Boyksy]

Hi Lee

Thanks for the response.

Yes, and have been generally operating out of it for a good few months.

[Boyksy]

FYI Lost connection around 7.20pm and also around 5.30pm tonight.

[tomhelliwell]

Hi Boyksy, im havin the same problem as you. if you find a soloution can you please post it on here. it started happening to me when i upgraded my line from a 512k to 8m (summer 07 i think)do you happen to be in the Rotherham area by chance?

Edit: Tom, you have a "flapper" line ... just found your thread so going back over it.

[matt]

Boyksy, which TalkTalk wired modem do you have ? Is it the SmartAX MT882 ?

Have you considered running the router monitor program ?

If you have an intermittent loss it can SOMETIMES give us an indication of what is happening around the time your connection goes.

[Boyksy]

Matt

It is the grey sagem modem that was originally provided back in June 2006 - im not sure the program you mention is compatible with this.

And no, thankfully (!) im not in Rotherham, im in 0161 799 land (Manchester).

Strange how the upgrade to the lines are causing issues .... :confused::confused:

Cheers

Rob

[Dave]

Hi Boyksy,

I will send you out a preconfiged MT882 in the post today. It will be much better on LLU than the Sagem 800F@st modem. :D

Sorry to butt in Matt, but I thought I would get a modem out to Boyksy for ya :)

Cheers

Dave

[Boyksy]

Cheers for the response Dave. Look forward to receiving it and seeing a difference. Though I think I best keep the receipt for the brand new Netgear router I bought last week :rolleyes:

[PMOsb]

Hi Boyksy

I have been there, around the houses with very similar LONG term problems on a flaky line, ADSL2+, and a Netgear. (18 months+)

Firstly, the firmware of your new Netgear needs to be the most uptodate...even if purchased new. I had a V2 (no good on adsl2+) and a new V3 Netgear and neither worked on ADSL2+ reliably after a few exchange tweaks they did when they updated their exchange software - without telling anyone of course). Once I had the new firmware (v4.xxx.xx or something) it was more stable and less noise than the wireless Huwei they sent me as a control test. That wasn't the key to my problems..but helped. The normal things are a given..work from engineers socket, no extensions, no mains nearby, best modem (Netgear I find) log the speeds and loss of sync, log the calls and 2nd line calls...

I still have flaky service, but nothing near what I had before. This was all to do with the poor BT lines. I could write three books on the amnount of trouble I have been through and it was only very desperate measures that eventually got the service that I expected.

good luck.

[Boyksy]

Thanks for the comments PMOsb. Im using v5.01.01 firmware so think this should be the latest version, though happy to be corrected.

I understand that the TT modem has just been delivered so I look forward to testing through this over the weekend. (many thanks to Dave for sorting that out:D)

Cards on the table, I just think that there is a problem with my line into the house - the "sag" on the cable from the telegraph pole to my house is incredible and the way the phone cuts off during a call (especially during these high winds) really does make me wonder if it needs some attention.

Do others who have the intermittant connection have the old-style telephone wire going from the pole to the top of their house, or do they have the more modern underground cable style?

May be a red herring, but just thought Id throw this in for discussion.

[PMOsb]

Do others who have the intermittant connection have the old-style telephone wire going from the pole to the top of their house, or do they have the more modern underground cable style?

May be a red herring, but just thought Id throw this in for discussion.

Hi,

Glad to see the modem is not at fault...it was only after I repeatedly proved it was not my kit did BT even consider coming out to troubleshoot. The software mods at the exchange did not help as they moved the intermittent failure goalposts. At one point my modem would not sync but a speedtouch would...only by taking the engineer next door with my modem could I prove it was not my kit, but something specific to my line.

I have overhead line for 100ft or so, and then aluminium (not as good as copper) underground for 3 km or so to a junction box. The bandwidth drops from 7Meg at excahnge to 5.5 meg at this junction box (3km) the next 3km to my house drops to 1.8meg, so clearly there were issues with line quality. This last leg was the weak point...although it took 18 months for BT to say this (unofficially). I too had poorer sync during wet periods and at evenings/weekends. each time BT tested they say it is OK - but don't qualify it..so you are on a hiding to nothing trying to prove it. BT will know if there is a long standing issue with lines in your area as their call out rate will be higher -but won't confirm it.

I spent many hours with engineers at my master socket, trying to get it to drop sync when the fault wasn't showing itself. Changing profiles is a work around but still unreliable if your line quality is poor, or junction boxes are filled with water or open to elements. Try asking TT to log all the disconnects to provide this to BT(openreach). They may take notice. Swapping lines (at the first pole) may be an option but they will fight tooth and nail not to.

[OCE_Stephen]

Hi PMOsb,

Once we have eliminated all the easy stuff we will be more than happy to look at other affecting factors for Boyksy lol lol

[PMOsb]

Hi PMOsb,

Once we have eliminated all the easy stuff we will be more than happy to look at other affecting factors for Boyksy lol lol


Hi Stephen,

I am delighted to see the attentiveness on this forum. This is what I expected of a company run by Charles Dunstone. As a long term customer of TT and one of the first to adopt the free broadband I, perhaps more than most, have been in a position to observe the highs and lows of the 1st line, 2nd line and customer services approach to our care. This forum is a monumental step forward, especially with the informed and approachable stance taken by the hosts and technical bods. This contrasts with the dark days of the phone support and 1st line woes many of us experienced time and time again in the last 2 years. About time.

[Boyksy]

I have to echo other users sentiments on the speed and attentiveness of the admin guys on here. Breath of fresh air.

Regarding the testing of the new TT wired :( modem (beggars cant be choosers!), im afraid Ive had one of the worst days yet. Not sure if it is the weather or what, but the connection is unreliable to say the least.

Ive attached the log for the last few hours - not convinced it has picked up all the drops, but hey, I cant work out what it shows - if someone could interpret it and let me know Id very most grateful!

[matt]

The noise on your line is shocking !

The goodSNR is a sample from my line.

The poorSNR is a sample from your line.

When it drops away completely its because the router reports 0 when there is no connection.

[Boyksy]

Now we are getting somewhere - TT tested midweek and apparently concluded (yet again ....) that there was no fault on the line.

Now what happens next Matt?

[matt]

Well there may be no line fault but there is line noise.

I assume you are in the test socket and not running over an extension lead.

I'm not going to be able to do anything this weekend as I need to speak to someone about this ... could you PM me on Monday ?

[Boyksy]

Matt

Same rules apply - we are in the test socket directly running the recently supplied TT wired modem.

What are the options then on Monday?

[matt]

By pass support and speak directly to an ADSL engineer, or I can raise a fault now with networks and see if they can get someone to look at it.

[Boyksy]

Ill leave it with you what you think the most effective way of getting this resolved is.

What is an acceptable noise level?

[matt]

Its difficult to say ... steady noise is easier to defeat ... yours is all over the place.

unless you have a lot of electric motors or pumps nearby or live near a garage where people weld a lot that line noise looks crazy.

[matt]

Can you do me a favour ? I have a memory like a fish, can you private message me on Monday to make sure I am sorting it out ? Thanks.

[Boyksy]

To the best of my knowledge, we just live in a quiet cul-de-sac with no industry going on around us - just trees!

Ill PM you on Monday

[Lee]

Do the trees touch the phone line at any point ? does anyone else in the area have the same problem that your aware of ?

[Boyksy]

Just had a quick look, other than a couple of twigs I cant see anything and the neighbours seem more affected than we do in terms of wires through trees. The neighbours have BB and the old fella next door has just signed up to th CPW AOL deal and hasnt had any connection issues.

A bit akin to leaves on the line this one isnt it?!!!!lol

[Boyksy]

Some more stats for the last couple of hours

[Boyksy]

Just had another look at the telephone wire from the pole to our house (about 25 metres) and it does have an incredible sag on it - all the other wires going to the other houses (further away from the pole than our house) from the pole seem quite stretched and tight. Thus I guess when it is windy etc the sag will cause the wire to swing more with more noise and crackles on the line - is this a fair assessment as I seem to remember from school that a tight wire is a better conductor than a slack one. Or did I dream that?!

Highly technical analysis I know ...

Who could remove the sag from the cable to eliminate this as a fault?

[Lee]

Boyksy,

I've sent you a PM.

[Boyksy]

Cheers Lee - just responded.

Once again, as Jim would say, "a thousand thanks" for your efforts guys. Hope TT see the goodwill this site is generating and a) increase your remuneration and b) put you on this full time. Marvellous service.

[Boyksy]

Summary of todays activity on the line - barely had a 5 minute run.

Look forward to the Engineer visit this afternoon!

[Boyksy]

So then ... the update

BT Openreach have just come out (due between 1pm and 6pm, turned up impressively at 2.35pm)- after pointing out to them the cable from the telegraph post, the first thing they did was change it - was over 20 years old and was The Engineer said it was totally knackered at the connection with the telegraph post.

Now running at around 8 meg I think from 4.10pm (see attached stats) but the noise levels and everything else seems very constant now compared to before.

Im wanting to test for the next day or so, but early signs are promising - just wish that BT Openreach could have been asked to come out earlier to fix it (ie 10 months ago!!!)

Thanks to the TT Admin team (Lee, Matt etc) on here - perhaps add a visual check of the outside cable/wire to the list of possible causes - this was a "double" type blue/green cable with a big sag in it.

Anyway, hopefully the problems are solved.

[ETEE]

So then ... the update

BT Openreach have just come out (due between 1pm and 6pm, turned up impressively at 2.35pm)- after pointing out to them the cable from the telegraph post, the first thing they did was change it - was over 20 years old and was The Engineer said it was totally knackered at the connection with the telegraph post.

Now running at around 8 meg I think from 4.10pm (see attached stats) but the noise levels and everything else seems very constant now compared to before.

Im wanting to test for the next day or so, but early signs are promising - just wish that BT Openreach could have been asked to come out earlier to fix it (ie 10 months ago!!!)

Thanks to the TT Admin team (Lee, Matt etc) on here - perhaps add a visual check of the outside cable/wire to the list of possible causes - this was a "double" type blue/green cable with a big sag in it.

Anyway, hopefully the problems are solved.

I have also had a drop wire replaced and because the new one is a twisted pair as opposed to the bell wire they used to use, I got a reduction in noise on the line. You will get faster speeds as a result too.

[PMOsb]

Terrific news.... just goes to show...often the customer has an inkling of the problem but still has to jump through hoops to prove it. I am glad you have progress Boysky

[Lee]

Glad a fault was found ! with intermittant sync issues its always a problem trying to prove there is actually a fault. Can you do a screen shot of the Huawei montiro graph ? it would be alot easier to visualise.

You've gained an extra 1.2mbit, your SNR has leveled outand have been connected for over 23minutes. It's looking alot healthier, if things are looking stable from your end we could try you on a lower SNR ? lol

Keep us updated.:)